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 12/120V inverter again
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blackpanther
New Member

Australia
1 Posts

Posted - Jan 27 2005 :  09:27:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi guys,

Just want to confirm something here. All I want is some low voltage AC. So, if I use say the 500w inverter diagram as posted earlier, and not use the transformer to step-up the voltage, I would have 12vac??

What variations, if any, would I need for a 24v in/out?

I have a solar panel charging 2 banks of 560/10ah batteries, so i can have either 12 or 24 volt output and I need 24vac to run some solinoids. So in effect, the diagrams posted are overkill, but if I'm going to do it, i will do it properly the first time. May built another one to output 240vac later.

Thanks in advance guys,

Greg
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audioguru
Nobel Prize Winner

Canada
4214 Posts

Posted - Jan 27 2005 :  11:24:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Greg,
If your solenoids use only 4A or less, a simple way to provide them with 24V AC is by using an oscillator that feeds an audio power amplifier IC. Bridged (or BTL) amps are very common for car radios and they effectively "double" the battery voltage from 12V to nearly 24V. If you operate the amp flat-out so its output is square-wave like these inverters, its output is nearly 24V RMS.

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slipknots
New Member

2 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2005 :  8:58:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi I am new hear. I have 2 questions 1) what i need is to make an inverter that puts out between 3000 watts to 10,000 watts with about 30 -70 amps (needs to be able to run power tools , 1000 watt lights, 2" sump pump and a copus(air mover) sometimes at the same time. I don't have any idea on how to design the circuit (about all i know is how to solder well Ha Ha ) I do a lot of small electronic modding ( PS2 xbox stufflike that. I have 2 Vector max 3000 watt inverters 1 that works a little and 1 that fried . I have been studying them but i am man to admit that they are a little above me but I am learning. If there is any one who can designe and maybe hold my hand a bit I would be in ther debt. 2) Now this is off subject but does anyone know how i might be able to build a circuit that would let me decode the channels on my TV. Let me explain I don't want to steal cable I only want to be able to watch what I pay for in one room on TV in the other without renting another box from the cable company. I would not mind it if they were reasonable with the price but an extra 29$ a month and 70$ to bring it to my house and hook it up is nuts. all i know is that the channels I pay for in the living room with the converter box show up in the bedroom on my cable ready TV but they are scrambled but the sound is good . Can anyone help or send me to a fourm dedicated to the subject. thanks Slipknots

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audioguru
Nobel Prize Winner

Canada
4214 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2005 :  10:44:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First of all you need to learn basic electricity and arithmatic. 30 amps times 12 volts is only 360 Watts. A 10,000 Watt inverter operating from a 12 volt battery will draw more than 833 amps because more amps are drawn to create the heat that it wastes. Yes, it might draw 1000 amps! That is one-thousand amps! Don't power it with a car battery. The battery will blow-up! Wires the size of your thumb will melt! 100 big output transistors. Its transformer mgiht cost more than a brand new small car. Forget it.

By the time you build a fairly complicated cable descrambler, your cable company will have switched to digital which is extremely difficult to beat. My cable company switched long ago. I built an analog cable descrambler 25 years ago.

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wasssup1990
Nobel Prize Winner

A Land Down Under
2261 Posts

Posted - Feb 14 2005 :  6:20:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit wasssup1990's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi,
Why not just hire or "buy$" a big generator. Those ones that power equipment for a circus.

833A would require about 11.1cm thickness wire. Why not just use a solid pole. I don't know if any components can handle those amps. Your inverter would be huge if you could get the components. Besides, the battery would need to be carried on a huge truck and lifted by a crane into position. LOL.

J.C.
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audioguru
Nobel Prize Winner

Canada
4214 Posts

Posted - Feb 14 2005 :  7:39:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Johnny,
I have heard that the speed control electronic components in diesel-electric locomotives can handle these extremely high currents.
I don't know where to find a battery that can supply such a high current. Just think how huge its charger will be, "only" 100 Amps overnight.

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slipknots
New Member

2 Posts

Posted - Feb 15 2005 :  7:04:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

First of all you need to learn basic electricity and arithmatic. 30 amps times 12 volts is only 360 Watts. A 10,000 Watt inverter operating from a 12 volt battery will draw more than 833 amps because more amps are drawn to create the heat that it wastes. Yes, it might draw 1000 amps! That is one-thousand amps! Don't power it with a car battery. The battery will blow-up! Wires the size of your thumb will melt! 100 big output transistors. Its transformer mgiht cost more than a brand new small car. Forget it.

By the time you build a fairly complicated cable descrambler, your cable company will have switched to digital which is extremely difficult to beat. My cable company switched long ago. I built an analog cable descrambler 25 years ago.





Thank you for posting and explaining it to me now that i see what you mean i feel ilke a ham LOL can you explain about an inverter that i have? I have the 2 vector 3000watt inverters 1 is fried ( the IC's cooked ) the other keeps shutting off on its own. What I want to do is repair one with the other and maybe increase the output a little . And as far as the cable CO Cablevision went Digital awile ago but for some reason I still get most of the movie channels when i hook the cable directly to the cable ready tv there just scrambled (Gated synk I think) In the other room they are clear because I have the converter I just want to get what I pay for in the other room 2 (it can't be that hard to un-supress the synk signal can it? If you know how or can send me in the right direction on this and the inverter I would be appreciative thanks Slipknots

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audioguru
Nobel Prize Winner

Canada
4214 Posts

Posted - Feb 15 2005 :  11:01:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Slipknots,
Your power requirement uses many amps doesn't it?

An experienced technician would know how to repair your inverters, or make a good one from both. Sorry, but since you don't know even the basics of electricity, repairing them is beyond your ability. Electricity is very dangerous!

Colour TV's are dangerous too. I had mine apart for days, 'scoping the sync and trying to find the off-screen line where they transmit an identification that the next field is negative or not. I used DIP switches to select that line that they changed every couple of weeks. I used lots of counters to descramble.
The key is in the vertical equalizing pulses where horizontal sync pulses, colour burst and black level reference are all transmitted normally during that moment. Snatch the colour bursts each vertical pulse, syncing a 3.58MHz oscillator that you count-down to get horizontal sync. I won't tell you any more because it gets much more complicated, you probably don't understand and I don't remember the details after not looking at the circuitry for 25 years.

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Rajkiran
New Member

India
2 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2005 :  05:57:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If any already modified the 12vDC to 120vAC inverter circuit into 12vDC into 120vAC.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please send me detailed circuit diagram & complete specification. most importantly the transformer current rating & the capacitor ratings.

ThankYou

Rajkiran

(Edit...Remove email notification due to bad address...)


Edited by - Aaron Cake on Nov 25 2005 09:16:33 AM
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audioguru
Nobel Prize Winner

Canada
4214 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2005 :  07:16:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This one is fairly simple and might work: http://www3.telus.net/chemelec/Projects/Inverter/Mosfet-Inverter.htm

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kinarfi
New Member

1 Posts

Posted - Feb 26 2005 :  2:07:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I tried to build one of these when I took electronics class in early 70s, I got it to run one time, only I think my frequency was in the kilo hertz range. What frequencies have you been coming up with. The one I was trying to build was so I could double the 6 volts of a VW to power a 12 volt radio. In browsing, I saw someone looking for a core, get a 240/120 volt to12/24 volt transform from an electrical sale place like grainger.

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GrüveMonkey
New Member

1 Posts

Posted - Feb 27 2005 :  02:33:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey everyone, great thread here. I'm quite interested in building a working inverter to power an in-car computer for various things. There are quite a few different sites involving this particular application, but most of them deal with a direct DC to DC (ATX) converter. I believe i understand the basic reprecussions between using a DC to AC inverter versus using a DC to DC converter for my particular project. At any rate, i'm a novice electronics hobbyist, and I don't really know much about building circuits past reading block diagram symbols and the correct way to solder things, ect. I was hoping someone could take a look at this schematic:

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schematics/inverter.html

And tell me if they think this is a good project to attempt.

I would assume one would be able to use Ohm's Law to calculate the watt output of the device by looking at the schematic and parts involved?

If you do think this would be a good inverter, i have some further questions concerning the IC chips listed.

Also, Audioguru, i checked out the schematic you linked for another different inverter. Which one of these would you recommend?

Thanks everyone!

--GrüveMonkey
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audioguru
Nobel Prize Winner

Canada
4214 Posts

Posted - Feb 27 2005 :  08:50:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Monkey,
The inverter you posted uses IRF530 Mosfets that are rated at 11A to 16A. I couldn't find a rating for a MagneTek F20-600 transformer but 2 other makes with the same number are rated for only 0.6A.

If you use the 11A Mosfets and an 11A transformer it will produce only about 90W output and get pretty darn hot!

Like all the simple inverters we have discussed, this one also gives a square-wave output, which might not power your application properly.

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wasssup1990
Nobel Prize Winner

A Land Down Under
2261 Posts

Posted - Feb 28 2005 :  06:34:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit wasssup1990's Homepage  Reply with Quote
C-mon, stop looking at those pipsqueek transformers and feast your eyes on these.
http://www.hot-streamer.com/adam/garage/microwave_oven_transformers.jpg

http://www.hot-streamer.com/adam/garage/pig_14.4kV_25kVA_2.jpg

You'll get your power from these beasts! LOL

J.C.

Edited by - wasssup1990 on Feb 28 2005 06:37:38 AM
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audioguru
Nobel Prize Winner

Canada
4214 Posts

Posted - Feb 28 2005 :  07:09:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Johnny,
You have a tonne of transformers there, I like the big HV one.

Economics don't make sense to me:
1) Iron and copper are shipped from USA to China.
2) The Chinese make microwave ovens from it.
3) The microwave ovens are shipped all the way from China to us.
4) The microwave ovens sell for a price that is way less than the cost of a transformer that size.
Who pays for all that shipping? When I ship something, I'm charged by the weight. Aren't they?
Are our transformer manufacturers ripping us off?

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