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Posted - Dec 23 2002 : 12:36:35 PM
I have a 88 vert. and am really motivated after hearing of your success turboing an NA. I have already grabbed myself a 87 turbo, and am now looking into what parts are neccessary for this project. My first question is should I get a S5 turbo instead to start off with the better component? If the turbo I find has no manifold with it would it be better to just have the whole thing made as a one piece unit that brings the turbo up higher to give more working space also, rather than just space out the stock manifold? I have also gotten my hands on a TII throttle body, will it make it easier to connect the intercooler piping, or will it eliminate the need for the strawberry? Finally, would it be possible to custom make a bracket to keep the wastegate away from the frame, rather than cutting the frame if I do it like you with the spacer? I don`t know why more people don`t do this since any car can have a custom turbo put on it. Reading the book "Turbochargers" shows many custom jobs.
BTW great pioneering work on your car, it is nice to NOT hear the broken record response of "Just swap the TII everything"
John 88vert.
Corksport kit (being installed)
Custom 4 light headlight kit (hommade)
Working on custom tailights too for S4's that should blow away S5 lights.
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| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
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Posted - Dec 26 2002 : 11:37:21 PM
Yes there isn't much difference at all between the two in the grand scheme of things..
if you search around on the net for a turbo lower intake manifold gasket and a non turbo one and compare the two you'll see you just need to 'extend' the top of the intake manifold a bit higher.
and Turbo rotor housing have identicle ports and port timing to the non turbo housing, except for the difuser thingy which will have a slight effect on exhaust gas speed and things like that, but I doubt you'd notice the difference until you started porting it out a bit more.
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| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Dec 26 2002 : 11:23:36 AM
I have not actually done it, but there are others that have. They have said the TII intake mounts close enough so that only a little grinding of the ports is necessary to match them up.
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Posted - Dec 25 2002 : 7:44:44 PM
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The TII lower manifold (and upper) will bolt to the 6 port block with a little modifying of the ports.
The video recommends use of the TII rotor housings, not irons. The reason is to eliminate the exhaust difuser present in the NA housings. However, it is fairly simple to swap the exhaust sleeves between turbo and NA if you have a good set of NA housings and a bad set of TII housings. I am planning to do this in the winter.
Actually it seemed to me that the main difference was in the exhaust ports since they are already bigger without you having to grind them. He said it was like a built in street port. So the TII intake manifold WILL bolt up and match ports well enough? I read somewhere that the ports would not line up enough to give any decent flow. Did I read wrong?
John
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| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Dec 25 2002 : 11:59:02 AM
The TII lower manifold (and upper) will bolt to the 6 port block with a little modifying of the ports.
The video recommends use of the TII rotor housings, not irons. The reason is to eliminate the exhaust difuser present in the NA housings. However, it is fairly simple to swap the exhaust sleeves between turbo and NA if you have a good set of NA housings and a bad set of TII housings. I am planning to do this in the winter.
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Posted - Dec 25 2002 : 05:38:48 AM
I think the 4 port throttle body and and 6 port one are identicle in design really, maybe different where they bolt to the manifold though because they're upside down to one another..
The Turbo manifold will bolt to a 6 port engine, you just need todo some port matching, but basicly there is no point in doing this unless you want a SLIGHTLY easier way to route some intercooler lines for a front mount, or if you want to not need to use a spacer for the turbo.
Edit: In that rebuild video i'm guessing they're talking about exhaust porting, using the turbo rotor housing effectivly gives you better ports by not having the diffuser in them, they're also much easier to port out than the nonturbo ones (because of said diffuser..)
Edited by - White_FC on Dec 25 2002 05:44:24 AM |
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Posted - Dec 25 2002 : 02:28:51 AM
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I agree the wastegate setup on the S5 cars are a much better design and if I found a S5 turbo cheap instead of my S4 one I would've definatly bought that, but since JonEQuest allready has a S4 turbo it'd make sense to keep that!
Using the 4 port turbo manifold has a few little advantages, firstly it will give you even more room to space the turbo away from the inlet manifold, allways a good thing, and if your running a front mount 'cooler then the pipe work wont have to be quite as long or complicated to mate back up with it.
however, I don't think it has the same setup as the 6 port manifold? In that only the centre plate port runners are open 'till about 15% throttle is applied(the bottom butterfly) then the other port runners are opened aswell(two top butterflys), I think the turbo manifold has all port runners open all the time.
I only have the throttle body, not the manifold, I don`t think it would do any good since the 4 port manifold is not supposed to line up very well at all with the 6 port engine, BUT in the rebuild video I just got they recomend using the TII housings for a built in port job so that has me scratching my head.
John
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Posted - Dec 24 2002 : 9:46:14 PM
I agree the wastegate setup on the S5 cars are a much better design and if I found a S5 turbo cheap instead of my S4 one I would've definatly bought that, but since JonEQuest allready has a S4 turbo it'd make sense to keep that!
Using the 4 port turbo manifold has a few little advantages, firstly it will give you even more room to space the turbo away from the inlet manifold, allways a good thing, and if your running a front mount 'cooler then the pipe work wont have to be quite as long or complicated to mate back up with it.
however, I don't think it has the same setup as the 6 port manifold? In that only the centre plate port runners are open 'till about 15% throttle is applied(the bottom butterfly) then the other port runners are opened aswell(two top butterflys), I think the turbo manifold has all port runners open all the time.
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| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Dec 24 2002 : 11:19:38 AM
JonEQuest: Definitly go with the S5 turbo. It is much improved over the S4 unit. There is a much better wastegate, as well as a true divided turbine housing, among other things.
Since you are willing to make your own manifold, it would be best to go that route. A custom manifold will be worlds better then stock, and completely eliminate the need for the spacer and to modify the frame of the car. Since you have control over the manifold, simply build it such a way as to life the turbo clears everything. If you are keeping your airpump, be sure to leave room for when you want to upgrade the turbo.
Using the TII throttle body will probably not have any advantages, since they are basically the same. The adapter/flange/pipe that normally connects to the intercooler faces the wrong way, so it will be just as easy to build a strawberry of your own (shouldn't be a problem since you are building your own manifold).
White_FC: As explained above, there is a big difference between the S4 and S5 turbos. If you have the choice, you should go with the S5 unit always.
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Posted - Dec 24 2002 : 05:22:46 AM
Yeah if I made my manifold again I'd have it sitting out a little bit further from the block.. but you can't actually go to far because of the strut..
anyway on a slightly unrelated note i'm decided today that i'm going to go a full standalone computer and 4x600cc injectors with mine instead of just pissing around with the factory shit box ECU.. 
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Posted - Dec 23 2002 : 10:48:57 PM
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If you've allready got the Series 4 turbo just keep that and use that, the difference between that and the series 5 unit isn't very much at all.
The manifold I have on mine is a custom one which brings the turbo forward and up abit however I still had to 'modify' the lower inlet manifold for some more clearance.
Custom is what I am thinking of, and basicly moving the turbo like a foot up and over so it sits towards where the water injection bottle is now, possibly, that way it is easy to service, easy to route intercooler pipes to and no other mods have to be made, the manifold would be a bit of a pain but that would solve a half dozen other custom problems.
John
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Posted - Dec 23 2002 : 9:32:00 PM
If you've allready got the Series 4 turbo just keep that and use that, the difference between that and the series 5 unit isn't very much at all.
The manifold I have on mine is a custom one which brings the turbo forward and up abit however I still had to 'modify' the lower inlet manifold for some more clearance.
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Posted - Dec 23 2002 : 4:49:33 PM
oh yeah..i would really like to see those s4 lights when you are done with them :)
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Posted - Dec 23 2002 : 4:41:23 PM
i recall reading something where a member (also doing the turbo n/a conversion) mentioned that you didnt actually have to cut into the frame, it was possible to move it somewhere..then again i could be wrong..lets wait and see what aaroncakes says...
i just realized that this wasnt much help..:)
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