| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| canadiancow |
Posted - Sep 04 2004 : 10:23:42 PM
Well for those of you who know what the CNE is, I bought a Firefly electric scooter there today for $100 (after tax).
I can't find the official website for Firefly, but http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64676&item=3697380636&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW is the scooter I bought.
Before anyone says I should have built one myself, I prefer how nicely this is packaged, and the seat, and the twist handle instead of a switch for throttle, etc.
Anyways, aside from the fact that I think it's seriously underpowered (100W motor, 2x 12V 2.3A batteries), it's very good.
What I was thinking was to replace the two batteries with four better ones, and add a switch to change between 12V and 24V (although I may have to do something different considering how slow it is on shallow inclines at 24V).
Also, I'd probably need a new charger if I got better batteries, because the one that came with it outputs 24V 400mA. The charger has a red LED and a green LED, although I haven't used it yet because I was told to drain the batteries, charge them, drain, charge, drain, and charge, before expecting them to hold a full charge. But back to the charger, would a higher current charger with the red/green LEDs (I assume one lights up when it's charging, the other when it's done and is supplying the lower voltage) be expensive?
And my last thought (for now): do you think I should try to get a better motor?
Edit: Now that I think of it, is there a way to tell what the amp-hour rating on my batteries is?
Edited by - canadiancow on Sep 04 2004 10:59:05 PM |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Nov 22 2004 : 09:59:37 AM
quote:
Geeze!!! $100 for any vehicle is incredible, and electric! Some part of my brain screams don't mess with it. But I know, this site is all about messing with stuff and that's the only way to really learn. I do It too.
MESS WITH IT! Double the voltage, loose the crappy controller, etc.  My scooter is now running 48V on a two speed contactor controller. From a dead stop, it will smoke the rear tire and lift the front 6" off the ground. Lots of fun!
quote:
*12V lead acid batteries usually hold 1-1.3 Ah per pound of battery. That's 43-56 KJ or .016-.0208 hp-hr.
Yeah, not particularily good, but cheap and easily available.
quote:
*The new standard for automotive electrical systems is 42V (3 x 14V). this voltage seems to have been chosen because it is the highest voltage that will not shock a person. I look forward to lower I^2*R losses, smaller/lighter parts and still safe.
Yep...Thank god too. However, you can easily get a 42V shock if your skin is wet. Not a big deal though unless you are very sensitive (pacemaker, etc.).
quote:
*The weak point in ALL EVs, and electric systems for that matter, are the energy storage devices. I count batteries and capacitors here. Inductors don't seem to apply for the type of storage I'm talking about. Could I be wrong? Have I leaft any out?
Inductors store very little energy, so they're not an option.
Batteries are the current limitation, but not as much as people think. Li-Ion is offering good performance with great range, and capacity is increasing every day. It's practical to build an EV with a 400 MILE range at highway speed.
There's a company about 200KM from me in Toronto that is building very high capacity Li-polymer batteries. They're called "Electroveya", but I have not been able to locate their website because I can't spell their name properly and there is a tablet PC of the same name. I'm trying to get in contact with them to arrage a tour...
quote:
*In theory 3 phase induction motors would be the best choice, because they are so plentiful, reliable and efficient. But in most cases these would be impractical because the controllers for them are enormous and expensive. Alan Cocconi and his company, AC Propulsion, seem to have solved the weight/size issue, but the cost! Does any one out there have a design for a variable frequency drive that I could learn from?
AC is easy nowadays. For example, my Honda Insight has a 3 phase AC motor. Nearly every commercial EV is also AC at this point.
quote:
*Thomas Edison invented and built some nickle-iron batteries that are still capable of opperation today. Does anyone know why we don't use this technology?
Poor capacity, high losses.
Have you joined the EVDL? This is THE electric vehicle discussion list. Huge, with hundreds of messages per day.
http://www.evdl.org
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| Rindert |
Posted - Nov 20 2004 : 2:26:16 PM
Geeze!!! $100 for any vehicle is incredible, and electric! Some part of my brain screams don't mess with it. But I know, this site is all about messing with stuff and that's the only way to really learn. I do It too.
Here are some things that I've learned about EVs.
*12V lead acid batteries usually hold 1-1.3 Ah per pound of battery. That's 43-56 KJ or .016-.0208 hp-hr.
*The new standard for automotive electrical systems is 42V (3 x 14V). this voltage seems to have been chosen because it is the highest voltage that will not shock a person. I look forward to lower I^2*R losses, smaller/lighter parts and still safe.
*The weak point in ALL EVs, and electric systems for that matter, are the energy storage devices. I count batteries and capacitors here. Inductors don't seem to apply for the type of storage I'm talking about. Could I be wrong? Have I leaft any out?
*In theory 3 phase induction motors would be the best choice, because they are so plentiful, reliable and efficient. But in most cases these would be impractical because the controllers for them are enormous and expensive. Alan Cocconi and his company, AC Propulsion, seem to have solved the weight/size issue, but the cost! Does any one out there have a design for a variable frequency drive that I could learn from?
*Thomas Edison invented and built some nickle-iron batteries that are still capable of opperation today. Does anyone know why we don't use this technology?
I just want to say that this is a great website. I have learned a lot. Let's use good manners with our comments and criticism, but definitely don't spare the content. Thanks to everyone who has contributed.
Rindert |
| canadiancow |
Posted - Oct 28 2004 : 11:45:37 AM
I know about the controller, but I don't want to risk burning anything out by having a bad throttle. |
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Oct 28 2004 : 09:34:53 AM
The throttle pot may work, if it's value is compatible with what the controller is expecting. But the controller itself probably won't handle the larger motor. It will either go into current limit, or more likely, burn up.
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| n/a |
Posted - Oct 28 2004 : 12:01:48 AM
i think it would be rated at a different ampage than if it was 100 watts
not sure, just know that they make 100 watt throttles and 200 - 300 watt throttles
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| canadiancow |
Posted - Oct 27 2004 : 11:49:08 PM
Well if I find myself with $100 to spare, I'll try it.
As for the throttle, why wouldn't my current one work? |
| n/a |
Posted - Oct 27 2004 : 11:04:23 PM
well, if you took off the plastic casing at the rear, you could quite happily mount it above the wheel, only then it wouldn't fold properly :P
i'm pretty sure that if there was a way to mount it, there would be a a place for it
you'd also need a new controller and throttle though
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| canadiancow |
Posted - Oct 27 2004 : 9:33:36 PM
Errrr.....when I said "fatter", I meant "longer"......ugh I'm confusing myself. |
| n/a |
Posted - Oct 27 2004 : 6:50:38 PM
i have quite a bit of space above and back from my current motor, i don't know if the thinner motor could fit in that space without having to stick out the back? i'll have to measure it up, but i'm sure with some slight modification of one of the back side panels and maybe the outer casing, a larger motor could be mounted and fit into place!
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| canadiancow |
Posted - Oct 26 2004 : 10:58:05 PM
I haven't tried a bigger motor yet, as I don't want to buy anything unless I know it will work.
From what I can tell, a fatter motor couldn't be installed in the same spot as the current motor. |
| n/a |
Posted - Oct 26 2004 : 9:43:53 PM
Hi there!
I have the exact same scooter (i'm in AUS) and I'm looking to do the same thing as you.
I would like to upgrade my motor to 200watts (300watts is illegal here), so I was wondering if you've had any luck trying to fit the larger, shorter motor into the smaller 100watt motor cavity? I'm going to start trying to experiment soon!
Mine goes quite slow, unless you kick off heaps while speeding up and kick some more, then it can keep up about 10-15 kmph.
But i could do without the kicking!
Has anyone here had any luck fitting a different sized motor into their scooter?
Thanks!
Jam from AUS
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| cirvin |
Posted - Oct 25 2004 : 12:41:05 PM
No offense, but have you tried the focus? It just looks as if the pics are really out of focus...
http://oatleyelectronics.com/bcorner.html
^Those are some pretty good prices! Other places have charged much more for the same things!
http://daxter12.topcities.com <Its updated now! |
| canadiancow |
Posted - Sep 29 2004 : 9:45:16 PM
Okay, http://www.canadiancow.com/elec/cont has a few pictures taken from different distances. They're MUCH better. |
| canadiancow |
Posted - Sep 28 2004 : 3:42:34 PM
I'll see if I can borrow someone's digital camera, but for now, I can give you the following numbers:
On the PCB, it says 249036 in one spot and DF-2410HA in another spot. The only IC has ľA339PC and 8722 on it.
I tried searching all of those, but I get very few results, and none were useful. |
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Sep 28 2004 : 09:03:17 AM
There's gotta' be a way to get a better picture out of that webcam. All I see is a blur. 
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